I think a relevant observation here would be that things do not get better amongst humans, they are cyclical. On a biological level, one of the greatest misinterpretations of evolution is that it somehow tends toward progress. It does not, it tends toward change. Human civilization has behaved in cyclical patterns since it began. There are brighter points when it comes to human rights and the general welfare of large groups, but those bright points are inevitably extinguished. Our understanding of science and technology has not been cyclical, however, it has increased. It has increased exponentially in recent years. Science and technology have contributed to both positives and negatives in the way human beings treat one another. We have global communication allowing oppressed peoples across the globe to glimpse the way free peoples live, sparking ideas of change. We also have terrible weapons. Ultimately we are not progressing, we are just shifting. We ebb and flow within the closed system that is our biological set-up. Competition for mates is still the root of all our human behavior. If science and technology overcomes this and our closed system changes, then we will progress on to new issues.

Until then, yes, maybe homosexuality will lose its stigma, but we will stigmatize other things. We will demonize others out of xenophobia and we will seek power in order to achieve alpha-male status. We're just monkeys you know.

On a biological level, one of the greatest misinterpretations of evolution is that it somehow tends toward progress. It does not, it tends toward change

Beautifully said, M.

Regarding John Kerry: he apparently hasn't learned from his mistakes as a presidential candidate. Is turning gay marriage into a platform policy going to win the Democrats any voters in the short term? Doubtful. But the Democrats needs to reinvent themselves as a party that truly cares about equality, liberty, the environment, &c., rather than simply being GOP Lite (same corpulence, half the bigotry!).

The idealist in me says that we continue to expand personal liberty and equality, but the realist says that any issue, be it about free speech, about religion, about race, sexual orientation, welfare states, militarism, &c. is merely a symptom for an underlying need in the human psyche for a hierarchy, for a division, for a conflict that sets us apart from each other. We strive continually to be better than everybody else, every day and in every way, and equanimity stands contrary to that.

M,

I agree with you regarding human history: To attribute change to a natural progression ignores the hard work of those who worked for that change. And I do believe there is an ebb and flow, resulting from power struggles within society.

However, I don't agree that, "On a biological level, one of the greatest misinterpretations of evolution is that it somehow tends toward progress. It does not, it tends toward change."

Yes, evolution is about change, but if you subscribe to the survival of the fittest train of thought, it is about progress. Creatures evolve/shift/change, but those that move forward and are better suited to survive are those that reproduce and come to define the species.

What does this have to do with human history? Nothing and everything. Society mirrors biology in that a survival of the fittest battle of ideas is going on. But like in nature, evolution is about survivability in the long-term, which is why I think the current surge in social conservatism won't last.

But I don't like using social Darwinism as a model for describing society, because it resembles the (some would say right-wing) attitude of only the strong survive.

Funny, I *already* see the gay marriage 'debates' with the same level of disbelieve as I look back on legal racial segregation from a generation ago.

Yegods, non-editableness still surprises me, even when it should be expected. Just pretend that I didn't make the obvious grammatical errors above, OK? Thanks.

M,
I am completely confused with how science and tech (S&T from now on) is going to overcome cultural attitudes about homosexuality….and what do you mean by saying that S&T will overcome the “root of human behavior: mate competition?” (Are you telling me this is what E-harmony is?) S&T had nothing to do with end of segregation---and I think that is Elyas’ point: Time will tell and one day we all look back on this and plow into a parked car and wonder why the heck was homosexuality so bad back then…. And that is why we will move on. You are right to say that we will find new injustices to blog about but here in the now…these issues are what we got. And to trivialize these issues and say, “Hey we’re just animals….We’ll get a redo,” is a rather dangerous attitude (maybe not to you) to take.

I live on a small farm. So I like to think I’m an amateur animal psychologist. Now I have seen my dog hump everything from other dogs (males included), cats, small horses, calves, human legs, to tractor tires. Not once have I seen another third party animal attack him for his rather eclectic tastes in sexuality. I’m not so sure that xenophobia is the right word---heck we could use that for just about every distinct group. It is about a taught (ie. learned) pattern of hate—or behavior whatever you want to call—that has to be mentored out of society.

The Intern

Heliologue:
The reason change is not to be regarded as progress is that there is no goal. Evolution is a response to the environment. If the environment changes, any traits that were selected-for as positives in the previous environment may not be so in the new environment. That being said, my lungs may work wonderfully and their evolution may be viewed as progress, but if the composition of the air changes (through whatever event) they become inferior or useless. Evolution is change, through natural selection (ie. death), that favors the current environment.

Julian:
I do not mean to excuse man from any responsibility because he is an animal. I applaud all progress we make toward a mutualistic society (where we help one another) rather than an adversarialist one. My point was echoed by Elyas in the mentioning of hierarchies. What I meant was that hierarchies are developed because we are competing for mates. I was simply saying that as long as we are doing that, we will always divide people into groups and fight each other. My mention of science and technology was to suggest that, were we to attain a degree of control over our natural impulses that would allow us to eliminate such competition, or the brutality of it, we could concievably eliminate all of our methods of dividing people as well. (classism, racism, sexism) Until that time, we are stuck competing. Also, i realize it's a bit of a stretch, but technology did aid in the civil rights movement and countless others. 100 years earlier, groups from across the country could not board busses to attend protests that they heard about by phone. Communication, most of all, is the technology that allows as to progress as a society. This is because knowledge is the most powerful weapon we have against our quite natural predisposition to fear the unknown, group it, and hate it. Knowledge is our best weapon against the more brutal aspects of our human nature... until such time that technology can help. That was my point.

M,

I think there was some confusion with who you were addressing. The author's name appears below the comment. I know some forums place the author's name above the comment, which makes it confusing.

And I agree with your point about science and technology being a double-edged sword. In fact, I tried to convey the same idea you are talking about in a recent post about smallpox.

The only point I disagreed with was your take on evolution. You say, "The reason change is not to be regarded as progress is that there is no goal." But I would argue that survivability is the goal, and any adaptation that increases a species' chances of surviving and reproducing can be regarded as progress.

But we're just debating a technicality when we agree on the overall issue.

Ah yes, i did address the wrong people. :)

I agree, I should have clarified I was referring to the fact that it's not about progress in some idealistic human sense. Certainly survivability is the goal and anything to that end is progress. There is, however, no goal of a perfect animal and especially no goal of a humankind devoid of violence and discrimination and whatnot. We progress in biologically in biological terms not biologically in societal terms. In short, all i had to say was, yes, i agree :)

http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005244.html
Please read this article about unintended consequences of policy changes--covers more than just gay marriages--like how no-fault divorce has hurt women and children (not its intention) and income tax as eroded our wealth and grown our government (not its intention).

The difference using your examples of our unenlightenment of earlier eras is, slavery was a sin, a violation of God's plan, as was the oppression of women, and destroying the environment. The marriage of two women or two men is not God's plan at all, and it makes no difference whose religion you cite.

Norma,

What makes you think God has a plan? And if two men getting married (or two women) violates God's plan, then does that mean He is not in control of His own plan? And where did you get the blueprints to this plan?

Not trying to be snarky (well, maybe a little). Just asking...

Norma:
I wasn’t aware that it was a requisite to “cite” God’s (or insert said deity’s) plan in any of this mess. If that is the case then this godless intern is in deep poop.

I read the essay you linked and thought it was pretty good (if not fence-sittingish) but I’m still not convinced (Just like the author said I wouldn’t be). Was it God’s plan for half of all modern marriages to fail? Probably not. My biggest internal gripe is that a lot of these lawmakers and mouthpieces (I bet some of them have failed marriages too) continue to refuse people the same rights as their sexual counterparts. And what right are we talking about? A right that contemporary (whatever that means) heterosexual adults have distorted into a literal extension of junior high school-type “will you go out with me” crap (apologize to all you seventh and eighth graders who have been faithful). I’ve seen marriages that are shorter than my 6th Grade Christopher Columbus thesis statement. And yet we can’t allow homosexuals to get married because it will destroy and degrade the ability of heterosexuals to get—divorced? (!) I will be the first to admit that I’m pretty stupid but I just can’t fathom that we still refuse to allow two people of the same sex to participate in a union that says nothing more than, “Person 1, this is Person 2 and I love you.” Why is that so threatening and harmful to everyone? And yet the religious rhetoric continues. “Don’t let those two guys marry because God is gonna be way pissed.” Maybe its just me but I think God has bigger fish to fry than gays marrying. And how insulting to homosexuals it must be that heterosexuals have turned divorce into an art and consequently a mockery of marriage—something gays only wish they could do.

I got an idea…. We’ll do it mathematically: For every heterosexual married couple that says “Adieu” we let one gay couple say “I do.”

Acinom over and out

P.S. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

"apologize to all you seventh and eighth graders who have been faithful" - Acinom

lol... i agree, and that's funny

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